Show Summary
Kelly Wilson, an Accepted consultant and former admissions director takes a deep dive into master’s degrees in graduate management education. Kelly provides insights into the differences between various master’s degrees, such as master’s in management, master’s in finance, and master’s in business analytics. She highlights the importance of understanding the specific program and school you are applying to, considering factors such as career outcomes, STEM certification for international students, curriculum, and timing of the program. Kelly also advises applicants to avoid common mistakes, such as a mismatch of skills and a lack of clarity in goals. She suggests seeking experiential learning opportunities and talking to current students and alumni to gain insights into different career paths.
Show Notes
Welcome to the 582nd episode of Admissions Straight Talk. Thanks for joining me. The challenge at the heart of admissions is showing that you both fit in at your target schools and stand out in the applicant pool. Accepted’s free download, Fitting In & Standing Out: The Paradox at the Heart of Admissions will show you how to do both. Master this paradox and you are well on your way to acceptance. It is my pleasure to welcome back Kelly Wilson, Accepted Consultant and former admissions director and dean at Carnegie Mellon University Georgetown and the University of Pittsburgh. Kelly has been on Admissions Straight Talk several times before, and previously a long time ago, was on Accepted’s all text-only chats. However, I’m particularly happy to have Kelly on today because she’s wearing a different hat now: She is now an Accepted consultant guiding MBA applicants and grad school applicants, particularly those applying for master’s degrees in graduate management education, which is our topic today.
Kelly, welcome back to Admissions Straight Talk. [2:34]
Thanks. It’s great to be here, Linda.
What do the following degrees prepare graduates to do: master’s in management, master’s in finance, and master’s in business analytics? What are the significant differences between them? [2:43]
If you don’t mind, can I just take a step back and say, for graduate management education, we’re talking about master’s programs, and the interesting thing is, 10 years ago, the place that you would find most specialized master’s programs was Europe. While there were some that were here in the US largely, we thought about graduate management education as the MBA. Over the past five to eight years, we’ve seen a lot of growth in MS programs here, but I think specialized master’s when I first started in the industry was all a European thing. So I’m glad that we’re talking about it today because globally schools offer master’s in GME. So it’s an interesting thing, but to answer your question, the difference in terms of what these programs prepare grads to do, a master’s in management is a really great start for someone that wants to lead across industries or roles. In terms of general management practices across corporate or corporate functional areas, someone might find themselves in HR, they might find themselves even in finance or maybe in marketing. They also may go into consulting or join a startup and think about their own entrepreneurial venture. The interesting thing is this is a great way for someone to move into the business space with a master’s degree in hand. The master’s in finance is interesting in terms of our discussion. It provides a career obviously in finance, and there are a couple of different, think three different areas that we’re going to talk about all that have a little bit of a different aspect of finance, where a candidate might go into, so you can think of one avenue being corporate finance, investment management, maybe banking. Another avenue might be risk management, private equity, sales and trading. And then another avenue will be much more quantitatively oriented, computational algorithmic trading, risk management may be financial engineering, and so that master’s in finance can play a key part in that for candidates as well. And then the business analytics programs or the analytics programs, the ubiquity of data is something that everyone’s facing. And so this is a great path for someone that wants to work in analytics. And the master’s in business analytics is a path related to working in business. There are also more general data analytics type positions as well as data scientist type positions. So a very exciting opportunity for master’s candidates.
Is it fair to say that the master’s in management is probably the most general or most foundational of the degrees and the other two are more deep dives into specific areas of business? [6:01]
That’s right. Yes.
Can you say they’re all one or two-year degrees, generally speaking? [6:20]
There are a couple of generalities but there’s an exception to every generality but typically master’s programs in GME are focused on candidates with zero to two years of work experience, maybe three. Typically, they’re one year in length, but I can tell you there are programs that have part-time paths as well for working professionals. And there are programs that are year and a half, two years master’s programs as well. So it really depends on what you’re looking for, but generally you can count on this being an early work experience path for the most part and generally a year program.
Once applicants decide which degree they’re interested in, what should they consider in terms of which specific program or which specific school? [7:16]
Honestly, I think the answer to this is general enough across all three programs. So the career outcome, the type of role that you want, the type of organization that you desire to work in, you’re going to want to consider that as you’re looking at different programs in each of these program types. You want to make sure that you’re going to end up where you want to be in terms of the role and the type of organization. Another thing that candidates should consider if they’re from outside of the US, they’re thinking about coming to the US, whether or not the program is STEM certified will give an international student the benefit of additional time to work here in the US.
Can you go into that a little bit more? [8:18]
Sure. The STEM certification allows for a program that is STEM certified, international students have additional time to work in the US post program. So typically they get a year to work in the US if it’s not STEM certified. Beyond that, with a STEM certification, there’s additional time that students can work in the US without obtaining a visa, so that’s the big benefit for them.
I think it’s like an additional year or two, right? I’m trying to remember right now. [8:51]
It is. So it’s significant and definitely something an international student would want to consider. Also, each school that offers a program may offer a slightly different version of the program or the school, the university has some expertise that it’s known for, and so whether it’s through electives or tracks within the programs, dig deeper than just finding the master’s in management or the master’s in finance. You should really dig deeper to find out what the experience will be in terms of the academics experience as well as the student experience. You’re going to be spending your life in this location wherever the institution is located, and oftentimes people may or may not be traveling alone when they’re moving to do a master’s degree. Sometimes they’re bringing a spouse or partner, and so what life will be like in terms of living in that place is also an important thing to consider. The one last thing, I would say, timing of when the program starts is also, we assume most programs are going to start in the fall. And while that’s true for most programs, there are some that may start in the spring that enable an internship to happen within the master’s program. So starts in the spring through the summer, ending up the next either December or even into the spring, depending on the length of time. So the assumption of how long the program will last and when it starts should not be one that you make. Make sure you’re paying attention to that.
Let’s say I want to go into consulting, there may be some master’s in management programs that are going to place better in consulting. If I have a startup idea and I’m thinking, “Oh, I need the business skills, but I want to go into the startup,” would I just research the courses? Or would I look if there are certain clubs? What would you recommend that I look into depending upon that goal? [10:41]
A couple of things come to mind. One is each program should be providing an employment report. Going to the website, you can pull that employment report and find out where graduates are going and the types of roles they’re in. The other thing is that program is housed within an institution, and so the reputation of the broader institution, university and business school will have a lot to do with where you end up as well. And so if you’re looking for a program that will position you well for a role in like a startup, you want to make sure that that’s part of the ecosystem of the institution as well.
For a master’s in finance, I guess some of the differences I should be looking at would be how quantitative the program is. Career placement certainly would be important, but if I want something that’s a little bit less quantitative, those are all things that should be considered. For the MSBA, the business analytics degree, what would be some of the factors that I should be considering? Clearly it’s going to be quantitative. All these programs are going to be quantitative on some level [11:58]
On some level. That’s where the outcomes are always important. Most business schools produce a standard employment report, and I don’t want to kind of come back to that again, but I think that’s a significant starting point, at least for applicants to consider.
I think finance has a lot of variations in terms of the degree types. Right. There’s the vanilla master’s in finance, there’s a master’s in financial analysis, there’s a master’s in computational finance, such as the one that you were dean of admissions of at Carnegie Mellon Tepper, and there’s a master’s in financial engineering such as UC Berkeley Haas has. What are some of the distinctions? Are they basically the different names for the same thing? [13:28]
Well, there are some significant differences. Let’s just start there. So the general master’s finance, again, it’s a broad degree. It will prepare you for corporate finance positions, maybe investment management, financial planning. You’re right that each of these programs requires some quantitative ability. But I think as you go from the master’s in finance to the financial analysts, your candidate will need more evidence of quantitative abilities. And then even more so when you get into the financial engineering or the computational finance. And so from the MFA or the financial analysis degree, a candidate that wants to go into maybe advanced financial modeling or equity research, valuation, that’s the type of focus that these programs will have. And so to have coursework in quantitative areas is important for these roles. And so it’s not necessary to have necessarily a degree from a quantitative area, but certainly the coursework that will demonstrate or experience that will demonstrate quantitative ability is important for the financial analysis master’s. And then the financial engineering or the com finance, often computational finance, quantitative finance, mathematical finance or financial engineering, they’re often used interchangeably. And there are some subtle differences. And I would say you hear about the financial engineering and the computational finance. They work at the intersection of math, finance, stats, and computer science. Definitely these programs are heavy, quantitatively oriented, and so having a degree in math, or stats, or engineering, or science is going to be important, but also candidates are going to want to have some programming language experience whether it’s Python or R, maybe C++. And so this is where if you’re thinking of the heavier quant degrees, that’s what these degrees are. And I think that the nuance between financial engineering and computational finance is really the programming piece that’s embedded more so with the computational finance. That’s how I understand it, is that that’s the piece that separates the two a little bit. Of course, there’s overlap, but especially Carnegie Mellon likes to think that their differentiator is the programming that’s embedded in their program.
I also interviewed the head of financial engineering at UC Berkeley Haas. I know that programming was a definite part of that program too, so I wonder if they would agree with you. [16:49]
Well, I don’t know. If you look at the curriculum, it looks suspiciously similar. But part of it might be marketing. Who knows?
For the MS in business analytics is there a difference between that degree and let’s say one in master’s in data science or data analytics or quantitative management? [17:13]
It’s a similar continuum. If you think about it, data analytics is work that a person uses tools and techniques to derive insights from data. Right. And so using data analytic tools, data visualization, maybe database management, these are people who work in an organization and then may partner or support others within the organization. So think of this in terms of, or the way I think about it is maybe work in market research or customer segmentation. The data analyst isn’t necessarily doing all of the work beyond the data analysis, but certainly as partnering with others or supporting others in the organization, whereas business analytics, the other thing about data analytics, it’s a broad category where business analytics is really focused on business and kind of needs of corporations. And so whether it’s supply chain or market optimization, you can imagine working in an organization not only needing to conduct predictive modeling or data mining or whatever the tools are to gain that information that will help you to make better business decisions and then be the person who can then sell that information. And when I say sell, I mean convey it to senior leadership, stakeholders so they understand what’s driving the solution that’s being proposed. And so from a business analytics, I think that’s the differentiation there. And then from a data science standpoint, I guess it’s really the broadest of those three because I think of it in terms of what’s happening in medicine, what’s happening in labs or research, healthcare. And also a PhD track would be an avenue through data science as well.
I mean, it could also be climate issues, it could be environmental issues, it could be healthcare, it could be defense. I mean, there are all kinds of applications. So again, data science would be broader than the business analytics. [19:31]
Yeah. So at Carnegie Mellon, there are nine analytics programs across four different colleges or schools within the university. That’s just a demonstration of how broad and how great the need is for data analytics.
How many of them existed 15 years ago? [20:02]
I suspect the number’s very small.
This field has exploded. My husband was an actuary for many years. And that’s what they do. They look at statistics and they create life insurance. He was specifically in life insurance and a life insurance actuary. And when this field became a field about 10 years ago, I was thinking if he had been born 30-40 years later, this would’ve been his field. [20:12]
Oh, absolutely.
What kind of academic background should applicants for each of these degrees have? Let’s start with the master’s in management. [20:50]
The master’s in management really is, the target really are people without a business background. This is the foundational opportunity for someone to come who hasn’t had the opportunity to study in business and gain that perspective. For the master’s in finance, I talked about this a little bit I think, but for definitely across all three areas in finance that we talked about, quantitative aptitude is important. And I think as you move from a master’s in finance to financial analysis to the financial engineering and the comp finance, the greater the requirement and need for a quantitative skillset through experience and degree programs, specific coursework that admissions committees will be looking for to demonstrate your ability to be successful will increase as we move through that continuum. And then with the analytics degrees, again, it’s a need for quantitative background as well as some programming background. Some programs will require more of a programming background. Others may want you to have some basic skills. And so again, it’s going to determine that level on that continuum, how specific or how extensive that academic background needs to be.
If you’re looking for the master’s in management and you presumably did not major in business as an undergrad, which is pretty typical, what kind of experiences are schools going to be looking for? [22:49]
Schools are going to be interested in the types of leadership roles perhaps that a candidate had in college, maybe volunteer experience, relevant project work or internships. Those are going to be important in terms of seeing beyond the academics. So a candidate who’s successful will be able to demonstrate that they’ve had these other experiences that they’ll contribute beyond a great GPA. And so whether it’s through school or through some outside activities, successful candidates will be able to convey these other experiences.
What about the master’s in finance? [23:45]
Again, the consideration for all three of these types of programs is that the generality is it’s focused on little to no work experience, but there could be someone who has some work experience that wants to pivot into finance, and certainly that could be something, or maybe someone that needs the credential for the track they want to go down. That’s something that would certainly be something the admissions committee would consider, as well as again, the internships and relevant exposure, whether it’s projects at school as part of a class or maybe working with a professor on something outside of class that will allow you to demonstrate the ability to be involved in more financial areas. And so math is going to be important in the finance sector as well. And so that’s going to be something that would be of interest as well as any industry certifications. And again, that might not be something someone coming right out of school has.
Like a CFA? [24:57]
Yeah, like a CFA. Someone coming right out of school might not have that, but someone with a year or two of work, that may be definitely part of their professional development at work.
They might have also had an internship at a bank or in the finance department or something like that, or perhaps try to do a startup or obviously bumped into some financial issues there. [25:10]
That’s right.
I think one of the experiences that applicants are sometimes very afraid to mention is a startup that didn’t make it. And it’s actually not the most pleasant experience, but it’s definitely a valuable experience. [25:29]
I think one of the things to discuss if a startup didn’t make it is what you learned and how did it kind of illuminate the need for this degree program. That is a great benefit if you think of it that way,
For the MSBA, how would somebody show experience in business analytics or even data science if they’re in college? [26:04]
It’s going to be through coursework relative to the skills needed. Perhaps it’s working with a professor. I think that’s something that students might not think about as an opportunity during undergrad, is to partner with a professor that’s doing something really cool that’s of interest to you. If you have skills and knowledge that you can contribute, I’m sure they’re going to be open to the conversation at least about having you become part of that project. The other piece really is through different courses. There may be experiential learning components that are project related where you’re working with a data set from a company and doing X, Y, and Z. That would be another way to think about it.
I was going to end the interview with a question about the careers that the degree prepares you for, but I really think we’ve kind of covered that, so I’m not going to ask that, but I’m going to ask you something else. And that is, what are common mistakes that you see applicants make when applying to either all these three programs since you’ve had experience really with all of them or to specific ones among them? [27:05]
One that comes to mind initially is a mismatch of skills. So if you’re thinking about applying to, let’s say, the quant finance or the financial engineering program, and you don’t have the appropriate coursework talking about how much you’re excited about it and how interested you are in the subject matter isn’t going to be enough to clear those hurdles. So really making sure that you’re understanding the requirements for the degree and that you’re meeting or exceeding those requirements. I think another mistake is really not thinking through goals. Right. And so getting the degree is not the end. Right. It’s really what are you going to do after that? Schools want to know that you have a plan for success, and certainly they’re going to play a role in that, but guess what? They’re not going to hand you a job on a platter. So being able to articulate the type of role and understanding that role and understanding what it will take to get there. And the way I always talked about it when I was on the admissions side is connecting the dots between what you’ve done and what you want to do. Right. So help the admissions committee understand that you’ve thought about it and you understand what it’s going to take. So those are a couple that I can think of off the top of my head.
You have no idea how many times I’ve said a master’s degree is a means to an end, not an end in itself. [28:55]
That’s exactly right.
Another metaphor I’ve used many times is that the master’s degree is a bridge between where you are today and where you want to be in a year or two. But that implies you have to know where you want to go. [29:02]
Absolutely. And that’s not always the easiest thing. You have to understand it in order to get there.
I think you have to have direction. It didn’t happen too often, but I can think of a couple of clients, one client in particular where he said, “I want to be the head of XYZ company.” That’s really narrow. There’s one XYZ, not going to say which one it was, but it’s something that everybody’s heard of. And I said, “That might be possible. It might be an impossible dream, but what if you want to be head of a company like XYZ?” That sounds very realistic. I want to one day run a large company in whatever industry it was. That’s much more realistic than “I want the C-suite in this particular spot at this particular address.” [29:24]
Don’t make the goal so narrow that there’s a choice of one to get you there. Right.
Right. And at the same time, if you say, my goal is to be a consultant, an investment banker, or go into marketing, you don’t know what you want to do. [29:46]
Too broad. And the admissions committee knows that. And sometimes Linda, I think people or prospective students don’t understand necessarily how to do that. How do I understand what a job like this entails? Or if I’ll like that type of job? And I always suggest that people to talk to current students, talk to alumni. Look in your own network, and then of the people that you know, they’re going to know somebody that can be a great connection for you. And quite honestly, we all like to talk about what we do when we’re talking to people. And so people will give you 15 minutes to talk about their job and what it entails. And will be flattered that you’ve asked them if you could get their insights on it. So talking to those people is so important as you’re thinking about the degree program, the goals that you want to have as an outcome of the program.
I once interviewed a fellow who wrote a book called Coffee Chats. He’s a MBA grad, I think from Stanford, if I recall. And he wrote this book about how he and the co-author would just invite people that they wanted to speak with to have a coffee. I think it was before Covid, but you can have a cup of coffee virtually. And fortunately, I hope Covid is in the rearview mirror, but you can say, let’s have a cup of coffee, order them a Starbucks, have it delivered, and send them a thank you afterward. As you said, Kelly, people tend to like to talk about themselves. [31:51]
And the reality is, if I can be helpful as a professional to someone who is young and starting out and my experience can benefit them, so many people are willing to do that. And I think that’s overlooked.
The worst case is they don’t respond or they say no, and then you go ask somebody else. No harm, no foul. You sent an email. [32:51]
That’s right.
Thank you very much for that. Is there anything else you wish I would’ve asked you? [33:20]
One of the things that I was thinking about is the importance of experiential learning. And so in each of these programs, so may be a question about that, but in each of these programs, I think as a student in these programs, the experiential learning piece is so much more available now in graduate business education than it was even 10 years ago. I mean, that applied, the application of what you’re learning. And so that would be one of the things that I think is a good differentiator for programs as well.
That’s a great point and it can take many forms. It can be externships, it can be projects as part of class, it can be consulting projects, it can be doing supervised research with a professor. There are a lot of different opportunities. This would all go into doing your research before you choose where to apply so that you make sure the program supports your goals. And again, you have to have the goals as you’ve emphasized again and again, Kelly. [34:02]
That’s right. 
Relevant Links:
- Consultant Profile: Kelly Wilson
- Fitting in and Standing Out: The Paradox at the Heart of Admissions
Relevant shows:
- Duke’s Master of Engineering Management, podcast Episode 564
- Michigan Ross’ Master in Management (MM): All You Need to Know, podcast Episode 560
- Stanford’s MCiM Combines Technology, Healthcare, and Business, podcast Episode 548
- Berkeley Haas’ Master of Financial Engineering Program, podcast Episode 540
- All You Need to Know About the New, Shorter GRE, podcast Episode 531
- Stanford MBA Discusses Coffee Chats, podcast Episode 437
Subscribe:
