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Show Summary
Are you a mid-career manager hoping to elevate your career to senior management? Do you feel your business skills could use a boost? Are you interested in a top, top program?
In this episode of Admissions Straight Talk, Linda Abraham interviews Johanna Hising DiFabio, Assistant Dean of MIT Sloan’s Part-time and Full-time MBA Programs for Executives. They discuss the MIT Sloan Executive MBA program and the Sloan Fellows program, focusing on the application process and the unique aspects of each program. They also touch on the importance of innovation and the MIT ecosystem in these programs. Johanna provides tips for preparing a successful application. She also highlights the strong sense of community within both programs and the impact they have on developing principled, innovative leaders.
Show Notes
Welcome to the 563rd episode of Admissions Straight Talk. Thanks for joining me today. Before I dive into today’s interview, I want to invite you to download Ace the EMBA: Expert Advice for the Rising Executive. This free guide will complement today’s podcast and give you suggestions on how to choose the right EMBA program for you, how to differentiate yourself from your competition in a positive way, and present yourself effectively as a future business leader who will bring credit to any program that accepts you.
Now we’re going to examine two fantastic options for mid-career, rising executives at MIT Sloan. MIT Sloan’s Executive MBA program has a more typical part-time MBA structure and the MIT Sloan Fellows program, which is a full-time immersive executive MBA program. We’re going to focus more on the more traditional one with our guest, Johanna Hising DiFabio, Assistant Dean of MIT’s Executive MBA and Sloan’s Fellows Programs. Johanna worked in business after earning her undergraduate degree from Ithaca College in 2000. She came to MIT Sloan as associate director of student life and learning in 2010, became director of MIT’s EMBA program in 2014, and added the Sloan Fellows program to her responsibilities in 2017, becoming assistant dean in 2018.
Johanna, welcome back to Admissions Straight Talk. [2:15]
Linda, thank you for having me. I’m so excited to talk about my programs.
Can you start by providing an overview of both the MIT EMBA and the MIT Sloan Fellows program? [2:22]
Absolutely. The Sloan Fellows MBA program is an over 90-year-old program. Often we talk about this as the first executive degree program that came to the US in the world. It’s a very exciting program to lead. It is over 70-ish percent international, so people move their lives. If they have families, they move their families and spend an entire year immersed, earning an MBA or an SM degree either in management or in management of technology. They’re a very tight-knit community. On the EMBA side, it’s 14 years old. I was part of the founding team of the EMBA.
That’s why I came to Sloan. As you shared, it’s a little longer. It’s 20 months, and we call it an executive schedule. Meaning that they come to campus every two to three Fridays and Saturdays. We have some executive modules to give them a little bit more immersion here at MIT every six months and they’re working full time. They’re learning and working. The expectation is that they all have some form of general management experience to both be able to tack on the learnings to their previous experience as well as when they go back to the workforce or on Monday go back to work are able to have the responsibility to actually use what they’re learning in their workplace.
You mentioned the MS and the MBA as an option. I think that was for the Sloan Fellows program, right? [3:51]
Right.
What is the difference? [3:58]
On the Sloan Fellows side, we sometimes have people who already have MBA degrees, so they’re looking for a different degree for that reason. But I would say most people get the MS degrees if they’re interested in doing a thesis and doing a deep dive into a particular topic. They have to do a thesis in order to get the MS.
The obvious difference between the two programs is that the EMBA is a part-time program and it takes longer, as you said. The Sloan Fellows program is full-time, immersive and in-residence. What are some of the additional elements that distinguish them? [4:20]
The Sloan Fellows program has much more of an international community. Although a lot of our EMBAs are born outside of the US or have international experience that they can draw from. I think the biggest difference is that our Sloan Fellows program has the core in the summer. Then they have one core class in the fall and one core class in the spring, but are otherwise really able to create the curriculum and the learning experience that they’re hoping to get while they’re in this program. On the EMBA side, it’s what we call a lockstep curriculum. We’re basically telling them what core classes they will be taking. The benefit of the EMBA is that they’re working while they’re doing the degree. The curriculum is very much designed with that in mind.
It’s action learning. They’re applying what they’re learning in the classroom to their organization. That creates very quick feedback loops. Research also talks a little bit about what’s the time between learning something and then being able to apply it and that making the content more sticky. From that perspective, the EMBA has that benefit. Often people will ask me, “Jo, which one should I pick?” It really depends on their personal situation. Can they take a year off? Do they want to continue working? Do they want a general management degree? Or, on the Sloan Fellow side, do they want a general management degree but be able to go deeper in one particular area? There are still some electives on the EMBA side too. But not as many as on the Sloan Fellow side.
I assume they’re later in the program also? [6:09]
Actually, we just finished four days of January executive electives. It’s when we invite not just our students but our alumni back to campus, and they get the opportunity to do electives. For our first-year EMBAs, that’s just three months after they started the program.
MIT is famous for its innovative culture and product results. How does this strong emphasis on innovation play out in each of the two programs? [6:32]
We sometimes kid around that you shouldn’t drink the water in Cambridge because you’ll get bitten by the entrepreneurship bug or have some innovative idea. It’s really in everything that we do. It’s very much also if you think about who is attracted to MIT and who comes here, challenging the status quo. Wanting to make this world a better place is very much who the people are that come to my programs. But it’s, of course, also embedded in the content that they receive and the tools that they learn while they’re here. We teach them about entrepreneurship. The reason we think it’s so important is because in today’s world, where things are changing so quickly, we need to be agile. We need to learn from our customers quickly and adapt products and new businesses accordingly. Whether you’re an entrepreneur going out to do your own thing or within a large organization and are doing intrapreneurship, we think this is a really important skill and mindset that our students have as they go through the program. Well, and as they leave, of course.
Is it something that MIT consciously tries to nurture, develop, bring out, and increase in its students? Or is it something that you think students are going to bring to campus using their own innate talents to add to the curriculum? [7:53]
I would say a little of both to be honest. What I always find so interesting about the students that come here, they’ve all been successful already in their own rights. In some cases, they’re coming here, yes, to learn general management, science, tools and frameworks. The reason to learn those sometimes is to make sure that their gut instincts so far have been on track. It’s as much confirming that what they’ve been doing in the past is the right way of doing it as it is learning new ways of doing whatever work it is that they’re doing. I would say it’s as much our students are coming in with an innovative mindset as it is us teaching new ways in the classroom.
Is sponsorship important? Is it recommended? Is it required? Or is it just a nice-to-have but strictly optional? [9:00]
I think, Linda, you said it. From an admissions perspective, we don’t use whether someone is sponsored or not as part of our admissions criteria by any stretch of the imagination. We do think about sponsorship in two forms. There’s the financial aspect, and then there’s the time aspect. The financial aspect, actually, it’s completely… We don’t look at that as part of the admissions process. Though, of course, it alleviates a huge financial burden for the student.
On the time component, it is a requirement. If you’re a Sloan fellow, you have to be here for a year. We want your companies to release you of your day-to-day duties so that you can be fully immersed in your courses and the MIT ecosystem. On the EMBA side, we don’t want you to pretend to be sick or whatever it may be every second or third Friday. We want them to be engaged. Actually, because it’s such an action-learning curriculum, we want the companies to be excited about the opportunity for their employee to come to campus and experiment within their organization with what they’re learning.
You really need that kind of support. Also, from family. [10:29]
Absolutely. Family is an important stakeholder. We want you to think about all the stakeholders you have in your world that we’ll need to pick up more things at home. You may need to step out of some of the volunteering work you’re doing while you’re in these programs. Yes, while they learn about stakeholder mapping and so forth in the program, we would like them to do some of that before they start.
You talked a minute ago about the MIT ecosystem and the MIT community, which is fantastic. Also, there’s the surrounding Cambridge community. How much mixing, if any, takes place among MIT Sloan MBA and MIT EMBA and the Sloan Fellow students or just regular MIT MBA students? [11:02]
Yeah. We think of this place as one Sloan. We have a portfolio of programs, whether it’s pre-experience, the two-year MBA or my executive degree programs. We put effort into ensuring that they have some form of interaction, whether that’s the student life office putting on events that at times could make it possible for all of our students to go. That’s more on the social side. Of course, all the clubs are available to all of our students. That’s a way that they interact. Then we have a student senate, which is our student governing board, where all of our programs have representation, including my programs. Then, of course, it’s also in the classroom. Now, that’s perhaps a little bit less accessible to my EMBAs given that they’re working. But that doesn’t stop some of them from still going to class and taking electives with our full-time students, including some MIT students who may take some of our classes.
Let’s say I’m seriously considering applying to the Sloan Fellows program for the next cycle, which will start in summer 2025. What should I be doing now and next fall to prepare myself for a successful application? [12:37]
Yeah. Great question. I think you want to really be thinking about why you’re doing this and what do you want to do with it, and plan accordingly. Start doing some research about what’s available at MIT. Start having conversations with maybe people in your community that have been through the program or been to MIT to better understand what it is that this program can do for you. Of course, having conversations with our admissions team or attending some of our recruiting events is something I highly recommend. Then you’re thinking about how do I get my life in order to move to Cambridge for a year, and how do I prepare myself for the academics of MIT?
English is not my first language, but for a lot of our students as well as our faculty, actually, English is not the first language. It’s important to be able to follow along with anyone who’s speaking, even someone with an accent. Because I think that’s actually the hardest part is when we have students in the classroom whose English is not their first language, and then the faculty members also don’t have English as their first language. That’s when the challenge actually comes in. Practicing English as much as possible and ensuring that you have a math background.
Now, let’s go through the different elements of the EMBA application. There are seven short essays, the employment history and a resume, three letters of recommendation, a transcript, and an organizational chart. What’s the purpose behind those things? [14:24]
Sure. I will say that we’re constantly looking to improve our process, and so we actually increased the number of essays this year. But if you really dissect what we did is we took the statement of purpose, which is what we used to have, it was a 500 word essay, and actually moved it to four essays only asking for 100 words each. Why are we doing this? It’s because we want to be more transparent with our applicants as to what it is we’re trying to learn from them, as well as make it easier for our application readers and our interviewers to find the specific information that we’re looking for. The questions around general management experience, principled leadership, what goals do you have to come into this program? Why is now the right time for you to do the program? All of those are typically questions you would’ve answered in the statement of purpose. Now we’re just asking you to provide us with those in a very succinct way. That’s a little bit of the challenge. We want our students to really be honing that skill of being succinct.
Then the three other essays that we have leading in diversity, diversity, equity, and inclusion, and innovation and impact. Those are essays we’ve had in the past. We find that we get some really interesting… It aligns with our mission and aligns with what we’re trying to do in this program and what we’re hoping that students walk away with. That’s why we ask those essay questions. It’s all really about trying to understand what has your work trajectory been so far? What have you done in terms of leading others and leading innovation and challenging the status quo? We do that through understanding your employment history, having a resume, seeing an organizational chart, and having other people who know you professionally be able to recommendations providing us with insight into who you are as an individual and as a leader.
I think Mark Twain once said that he would’ve written a shorter letter but he didn’t have enough time. There is a challenge in being succinct. I’ve many times likened applications to jigsaw puzzles where you don’t want to duplicate information. You want it all to fit together and really present the picture of the applicants. [17:03]
Absolutely.
The one thing that doesn’t quite fit for me is the organizational chart. MIT is one of the few, if not the only, program that asks for an organizational chart. What is the purpose of the organizational chart? What about people in very flat organizations? [17:42]
Linda, I’m so glad you asked this. I was actually thinking about this recently because when I first came here, I came from the private sector. It was one of the things I asked to have included in applications after the first round. It’s since trickled into a lot of the other applications that we do. The reason we do it is because it gives us a sense of where they’re at in their organization. How far are they from the CEO? What titles do their peers have? Who reports to them? We would never make a decision on an individual solely based off an organizational chart.
But like you said earlier, this is all about creating a little bit more understanding of a piece of their puzzle. There’s also a place, I believe, for the organizational chart where they can explain a little bit what their organization is like. We have everything from entrepreneurs of very small organizations all the way to more than 100,000 people in an organization. We are very adept at understanding how to read an org chart. It’s another data point and a way for us to understand their scope of work.
What makes an application to the MIT Sloan EMBA program jump off the page in a positive way? [19:18]
I reviewed a couple of applications a couple of weeks ago. The ones that really jump off the page are extremely passionate about the work that they do, the difference that they want to make in the world, how they think this degree is going to help them get there and are willing to show us who they are authentically and have some great stories. It’s clear that they’ve put a lot of work into this. There’s not one thing. Well, generic answers is not what we’re looking for.
Are you at all concerned about people using ChatGPT or its role in the application process? [20:13]
The short answer is no. On the one hand, I would say admissions advisors have been around for a very long time. While I still in my heart believe that admissions advisors and the human is going to provide way better support for an individual. I think ChatGPT is a resource. Even as a school, we need to embrace it. Our EMBAs and our Sloan Fellows are very busy people who need to learn how to be more efficient at the work that they do. More is being unexpected of them, and so ChatGPT is a reality of the world that we live in today. Pretending like it’s not there or that people aren’t using it, I think, is not the wisest. We’re aware that it’s there, and actually we encourage students or applicants to be working with people who know them well to review their essays. It’s just another tool. It’s pretty obvious if someone’s just using ChatGPT and has not thought about it themselves. We’ve run all of the questions through ChatGPT to educate ourselves as to what it would say.
Other than abusing ChatGPT, what are some common mistakes that applicants make in their applications to MIT Sloan EMBA, and in this case, it could also be the Sloan Fellows program? [22:00]
I think if an individual wants to do themselves a service and us a service, it is showing their true self and talking about their own experience. Don’t share what you think we want to hear. Share about experiences in your past and dreams that you have that are true to you. The biggest mistake that I’ve seen is this: trying to put on an air or trying to be something that they’re not. That comes through in an interview. Definitely, that would be one of the biggest faux pas that I’ve seen. I’ll also say, it still surprises me, but we get people who are not actually answering the question. I would go back to what I was saying a little bit earlier.
I highly recommend that people use the opportunity of these applications as a way to reflect on who they are, how have they come to where they are today, how have the experiences that they’ve had formed who they are today, and where do they want to go. Use this as a self-reflection and a self-awareness exercise. I always get really excited when I hear from someone who has said, “I really enjoyed the process. Whatever happens, I feel good about what happened. I put my best self forward.” But the exercise in doing the application felt very rewarding to the individual. I would encourage people to talk to people who know them well, whether it’s a significant other or a mentor.
I recently was reviewing an essay, and the applicant used one third of the essay to talk about his father. I thought, that’s not the right focus. It was nice. It was certainly lovely that he paid tribute to his father, but it wasn’t… The other essay was I think one third of general stuff about challenges in healthcare. Again, it wasn’t that it was wrong, but it wasn’t reflective of him other than the fact that he was interested in healthcare. It wasn’t personally revealing. It was the wrong focus. [23:47]
Right. Linda, I think those are two great examples of ways to self-sabotage, to be honest. We want to get to know the individual. It’s less about what you know. That’s actually not what we’re trying to assess in the application process. It is who you are and whether our degree programs can help you get to where you want to go next.
What advice do you have for EMBA applicants preparing an application or starting to think about it? [25:27]
In the year of 2024, I am committed to doing more journaling. Even in just these 18 days, I would say that my biggest recommendation is to download the essay questions and start journaling on them. Don’t try to create perfection off the bat, but let it percolate. The questions are not meant to be easy to answer. That’s not because we’re trying to make it hard, but it’s because we’re really trying to get to know you as an individual. I would really recommend that. Then I know I already said this and maybe I’m repeating myself too much, but having conversations with trusted advisors and close friends, I think is a really great way of ensuring that what is showing up on the paper is a true reflection of who you are. My recommendation would be to write it, send it to people and see what they… Or how would they answer this about you is another way to get feedback. As I said, a lot of people have found a lot of value and learned more about themselves in the process.
A lot of times people will write down, “I did this, this, and this,” but they don’t write why it’s important. If you’re going to be journaling, write what you learned from the experience, why you think it was important to journal about it. What was significant about it? Because again, sometimes people use examples and they don’t say why you should care about it. [26:53]
Right. It’s such a great point. I co-facilitated a reflection session for the Sloan Fellows last week. One of the things that we talked about, as I shared I’m trying to do more journaling, they asked me am I doing the sharing what happened that day? Or is it different kind of journaling? Actually, it never crossed my mind to share what happened that day. That’s not actually even what I’m writing about. It’s more what are some of the thoughts that are running through my head. Like you said, why are those thoughts? How can I help process those, and who can I talk to?
What do you see coming down the pike for these two programs? Innovation is the middle name of MIT. I’m joking. But what’s coming that you can talk about? [27:53]
I think that one thing to know about both of these programs and I think MIT in general, is that we’re always tinkering. We get a lot of feedback from faculty, students and staff to see what we need to adjust, what we can do better. Someone said, “But Jo, they’re already so great.” I said, “That’s right. I am very proud of both of these programs, and there’s always room to try something new.” I think one of the biggest interests that we’re trying to do more of is connecting more to MIT and ensure that our students are learning more about the new technology and the new science that’s coming out of this amazing institution. That’s one thing. We are continuously looking at how we can bring the Sloan fellows and the EMBAs together. We currently run an elective on Thursday evenings before Friday and Saturday classes. That is for both EMBAs and Sloan fellows, discovering your leadership signature, which has been really popular.
We’re doing another one on macro now in the spring. There’s a huge interest of these two populations to be spending more time together, and so we’re looking at that. I’ll also say that we’re trying to create more opportunities for Sloan and MIT students in general to interact. Then I just had a meeting with the Leadership Center yesterday, so maybe it’s top of mind. But how do we take more advantage of the team settings that the students are in? Why I find these so interesting, it’s the action learning of emotional intelligence and relationship building. How do we create a feedback loop for students to give each other better feedback? We already have mechanisms to do this in some ways. We have executive coaches who facilitate some of the team meetings to deepen the learning. But I think that’s also my background, but still very much something that I’m hoping and see a lot of value for our students to get more out of, so more on that.
What would you have liked me to ask you? What would you like to talk about that we haven’t discussed? [30:15]
I think the one thing we haven’t really talked about for either program is how special the community is. It’s perhaps understandable for the Sloan Fellows when you move your lives here for a year you’re going through this experience together. It’s just such an amazing community. Whether it’s celebrating the highs or supporting each other through the lows, or just spending time together, getting to know the different cultures and seeing the kids become friends over the year. It’s just absolutely amazing. On the EMBA side, it is just as tight of a community. The students go through these courses together, and so they really get to know each other very deeply over the 20 months. Like I said, we just had four days worth of executive electives here last week, and the alums came back feeling like they were coming home. That has, of course, a very nice feeling associated with it.
But a lot of that comes from the learning community that they have and the community that they have with each other. I think that’s pretty special. Then of course, the other piece that I always want to talk about is how proud I am of my students and alums who are living our mission. Developing principled, innovative leaders who improve the world had many opportunities over the last week to talk to students who’ve come back and shared what they’re doing out there. Whether it’s something small or something big, always so gratifying to hear how these programs are making them better leaders, better general managers, and feeling a responsibility to make this world a better place.
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