How to get an MBA from Dartmouth Tuck

Podcast interview with Pat Harrison and Amy Mitson

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Are you smart, accomplished, aware and encouraging? Dartmouth Tuck may be the MBA program for you. [Show summary]

Pat Harris and Amy Mitson, co-executive directors of the MBA Admissions and Financial Aid at Dartmouth Tuck, share all about the Tuck experience including its close-knit community, amazing alumni network, and unique location while offering guidance to those seeking to attend.

What the Tuck adcom looks for in applicants, and how to show you’ve got it [Show notes]

Welcome to the 430th episode of Admissions Straight Talk, Accepted’s podcast. Thanks for tuning in.

One of the questions applicants sometimes ask is, “Are Accepted’s services worth the money?” The answer is a resounding, “Yes!” at least in my opinion. If you’re curious as to why that’s so, or why I’m convinced it’s true, check out the MBA consultant ROI calculator and find out for yourself how much not teaming with an Accepted consultant could cost you. Use the calculator and you’ll see three different scenarios that you can try out.

It gives me great pleasure to have, on Admissions Straight Talk, Pat Harris and Amy Mitson co-executive directors of the MBA Admissions and Financial Aid at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth. Amy joined the Tuck admissions office in 2000. An attorney by education, Pat joined the Tuck MBA admissions office in 2004. Both have assumed increasing responsibilities over the years and became co-executive directors in September, 2020 — in the midst of the pandemic. I believe I met both of them way back when Tuck hosted a conference for admissions consultants in 2005 and probably had them on our typing-only chats way back when.

Now it’s my pleasure to have you both on for the first time. Amy and Pat, Welcome to Admissions Straight Talk.

Can you give an overview of the full-time program focusing on its more distinctive elements? [2:36]

Amy: The Tuck program starts with an expanded orientation for students to establish a firm foundation so they can jump into a very rigorous academic experience during their time at Tuck. It was several years ago when we redesigned the orientation program to now be called Tuck Launch and there are several components of that: integrated programming in Tuck Launch, experiential learning, as well as very specific opportunities for reflection.

We believe this sets a stronger foundation as people jump into the core curriculum. The core curriculum at Tuck begins and weaves its way through the first year at Tuck with expanded fall term opportunities and new data analytics courses. We made some changes to the winter term to try to optimize student academics as well as recruiting, and we’ve gotten some very positive feedback on that. When students head into the spring term of the first-year, a distinct element of the Tuck experience is the first-year project. Many MBA programs will have a capstone project in their first year. The uniqueness of Tuck is that students have total choice of the team that they want to work with and the project that they want to work on. It could be something consulting, non-profit focused, entrepreneurial where you’d present to investors at the end of the project. Sometimes students are working with alumni, local projects, global projects – the sky’s the limit. At that particular point in the curriculum, students definitely have the relationships built and have met all of their classmates and start to bring teams together. It’s a great opportunity to apply the skills that students learned throughout the first-year core.

Then heading into the second-year curriculum, it is all elective-based with incredible opportunities for experiential learning, working with faculty in very small scale electives. Or, of course, some of our larger, more popular electives like investments and negotiations, some leadership and communications courses. And the list goes on. The Tuck MBA is also a STEM-designated MBA program. Students have the opportunity to follow a selection of courses that gives them that stem designation at the end of their two years so that’s something that we’ve done for the last few years as well.

But the distinctive element is definitely the choice that students have to create the learning experience as they maneuver through the core curriculum and into the elective curriculum during their two years.

Of course, the internship is in the middle of it. We can talk more about that later, but that’s something where a distinct element of the Tuck experience is definitely one-on-one career coaching. Whether students have an eye on exactly what they want to do or an exploration for their job search, we have 100% placement for our students when it comes to the summer internship and a whole ecosystem of resources to help them get there. The connectedness there and the opportunities when it comes to recruiting and summer internships and full-time offers – all of that weaves its way together and those are some of the things that I feel in response to that question.

Pat: I think the only thing I would add is I think what makes the Tuck program distinctive from many of our peers is the scale, the focus, and the access. On a personal scale – it is one of the smaller programs of our peer institutions with approximately 285 students per class, where you really have the opportunity to get to know your classmates very, very well. And also develop personal relationships with the faculty and the administration.

Then it’s combined with being in a location like Hanover, New Hampshire, where you’re away from the distractions of a big city. So it becomes this very immersive program. It is a 24/7 all-in program. What this creates is a personal, connected, and transformative experience for the students and they will go on and transform the world as a result.

How have pandemic restrictions affected the MBA experience at Tuck? [7:08]

Amy: I’d love to begin and just say pandemic restrictions have absolutely been in effect, and there have been some limitations, but I’ll start with the silver linings first. The career services team in the last year when there were many restrictions, had the opportunity to develop even more corporate relationships than they had in the past. Students had even more opportunities than they did in a prior, what we’d maybe call “a normal,” year. So the career services team definitely did a lot of development there. And it was easy to set up a conversation with a recruiter over Zoom and students reap the benefits of that.

Increased access and connection with alumni – we have alumni who are always visiting campus, but in the year when people weren’t able to travel, our Dean, Matt Slaughter, really led the way in launching conversations from the top. For prospective applicants listening out there, you can see some of those recordings on our website, but that was conversations with senior alumni across the world, in different industries, just having a conversation with the Dean about leading during the pandemic.

These were opportunities for the entire community, not just students, but also alumni and faculty and staff to engage in these conversations, so bringing alumni to everyone. There was also increased conversation on the admission side. We reached candidates all over the world at all times of day. So increasing that access for candidates and for us was definitely a silver lining. Even when we go back to travel, we won’t let go of that opportunity to connect with people virtually, because it kind of decreases any kind of barrier for investment of time or resources to connect with the admissions committee or with any students.

We really enjoyed meeting a lot of people. There were some pauses when it came to the global opportunities at Tuck, and we will be slowly rolling back into those global opportunities for students this year, carefully and thoughtfully, but we did have to put a pause on those this past year. But the results on the career side were incredible.

The opportunities that faculty developed, once they got really comfortable in the classroom with all the technology, and, man, they ramped it up quickly. They were having that case discussion and then bringing the CEO in, or bringing the alumni into that classroom discussion for 10 or 15 minutes over Zoom, which they might not have done in the past. That was definitely a benefit to the students. I think that also helped keep the faculty inspired to bring really meaningful, relevant content and communication, even when things were limited because people couldn’t travel to campus.

Pat: One aspect of COVID that I hear from a lot of applicants is this concern that so many people were deferred because of COVID that there won’t be space going into the next year’s class. That was not the case at Tuck. We accommodated all of our international students who were delayed with visas. We’re doing it again this year if there are any with visa delays. We came up with hybrid solutions. They were able to attend. So we did not have this mass deferral of a large number of students. We have the same number of seats going into the class of 2023 and 2024. Neither was impacted by large scale deferrals so I want to assure people that is not going to be the case.

What don’t people know about Tuck that you would like them to know, or perhaps a common misconception that you’d like to dispel? [10:55]

Pat: We are located in a small town in New Hampshire, and I think people are worried that we’re in this remote location, either there’s nothing to do or recruiters aren’t going to come, whatever impact it is. That’s absolutely not the case. I think our location is what makes Tuck so special. It’s a beautiful place to be. I hear about research into your ability to learn when you’re more in a peaceful, natural setting, and you definitely have that at Tuck. But I think that the focus that it brings is, I touched on before, it’s a very immersive environment and it creates access. So hitting on the recruiting question, recruiters absolutely come to Tuck. They want our students, our placement stats are a great demonstration of the marketability of our students.

When those recruiters come, they’re a captive audience. They, too, are away from the distractions of big cities. So the entire focus of their visit is on recruiting Tuck students and connecting with them. To put the size of the student body in perspective, the number of people you are competing with for face time with recruiters or connections with them is reduced.

When they come up, they’ve put in more effort to get to Hanover so they tend to stay longer. Recruiters as well as visiting executives, CEOs that are coming to campus, they’ve made this investment to come so they really spend time with our students. They are meeting them for drinks at Murphy’s. They’re taking small groups of students out to lunch or dinner. They’re holding open office hours. Our students have the opportunity to connect one-on-one with recruiters or connect one-on-one with CEOs from leading companies and really get personal access and are able to learn from them in a one-on-one or a very small group setting. I think that’s a unique aspect and such a value of being in an environment like Hanover.

And our students are never lacking for anything to do. They make their own fun. They’re not going out clubbing until 2:00 AM in the morning. But who wants to do that? They are creating memories. They’re hiking together, they’re canoeing, they’re skiing, they’re hosting parties, they’re cooking dinner for each other. Yes, we’re a small town in New Hampshire, we’re also an Ivy League college in New Hampshire. So there are arts opportunities and a world-class museum. There’s a lot going on. Because it’s a small town, you really have that opportunity to take advantage of everything that Tuck and the Upper Valley have to offer.

Amy: Just to echo something that Pat said, I led a virtual information session last night where five alumni joined me on a panel. And before all the prospective students came into the session, the very first question that the two different alums asked when joining the session, “Will recruiting be in-person? Because I want to come back to campus and recruit for my company.” So they were very enthusiastic about that.

I echo everything Pat said and will also say a common misconception is that students graduating from Tuck are just getting jobs in the Northeast. West Coast, East Coast, Midwest, and globally, student placement is incredibly strong and very diverse. I think, again, because of the strong connection with alumni who are all over the world and are very interested in the next group of Tuckies – they want to hire them or talk to them about their company or share their experiences. That helps with student recruiting and it helps with placement and wherever students want to go.

In addition to the full-time career services team that we have in Hanover, we also have a dedicated career services person on the West Coast. That’s been pivotal for students, especially with tech recruiting.

Tuck lays out pretty clearly it’s four criteria for acceptance: Smart, Accomplished, Aware, and Encouraging. Can you unpack those criteria a little bit? [15:27]

Pat: Absolutely. I would love to. We came up with those criteria by looking at what made successful Tuck students, who are now successful Tuck alum and they demonstrated those four qualities. That’s what we came at as we were creating or revising our criteria.

Smart – pretty straightforward. We are looking for people who were successful in their undergraduate or graduate programs. We’re looking at test scores. We’re looking at undergraduate GPA performance. That one’s kind of obvious, but that’s kind of the academic smart aptitude. We’re also looking for smart in their attitude. We want people who are curious and engaged. Tuck students have confident humility about what they know and what they don’t know. We’re looking for those qualities on top of the academic performance and the test scores.

In terms of Accomplished – we’re looking for impact and advancement in your careers. We’re also looking for accomplishment in extracurricular activities, community involvement, and personal accomplishments. All of that comes into the accomplishment factor, kind of what’s on your resume.

Awareness is kind of in two directions. We’re looking for awareness – applicants who have taken time to reflect and really think out who they are, where have they come from, how their experiences have shaped who they are, shaped their character, and how that will contribute to the Tuck community. And then also in terms of awareness, it’s more forward-thinking of what are the applicants’ goals? What did they set forth that they want to do in this world? How will an MBA help them achieve those goals and how will an MBA from Tuck, specifically, help them achieve those goals? So that’s what we’re looking for in terms of awareness.

And lastly is encouraging which I think is truly quintessential Tuck. This is the Tuck community at its finest. Our students are encouraging, collaborative, and empathetic. They are great team players. This doesn’t mean that they’re pushovers. They are willing to stand up, to push back. But when they do so, they do it respectfully; they do it in a constructive way and in a positive method.

I think that the key thing here is that Tuck students recognize that my success and your success are not mutually exclusive and they work to build each other out. It is not a place where you’re only looking out for number one. Though that describes our Tuck students, that also describes our alums, and that’s what we’re looking for in our applicants.

Can you be accomplished without being smart and aware? [18:24]

Pat: That’s interesting. I think, yes. Of course, there’s going to be overlap with all four of these criteria. If you’re going to be a successful person, you’re good with people, you’re smart, you’re thoughtful. When we come back to it as admissions criteria, I think it’s important to remember it as a holistic evaluation process. Strengths in one criterion or criteria can balance out weaknesses in other areas.

Someone could be very accomplished in their career and bring amazing impact to the table, but maybe the GPA and the GMAT are not quite as competitive as others in the applicant pool. Those things balance each other out. Of course, there’s going to be overlap, but we don’t have to see all four. There’s going to be varying. People are going to shine for different reasons on different criteria.

Amy: I agree, and different applications are running through my mind and people shine for different reasons. We know the things that may not be as strong, they can fine-tune at Tuck, but they have everything that they need to jump into the program and to be successful and to grow.

It also seems like your four criteria, they’re not what you’re going to teach, right? You’re not going to teach somebody to be smart. You could perhaps teach them to be accomplished a little bit, but you’re not going to teach them, necessarily, to be aware, to start with. [19:48]

Amy: I think the application process and people coming into the MBA program have a lot of aspirations and desires for growth. They present to us in the application where they are. And then, because these things are woven into the community in ways, I think people can grow along that journey, even though it’s not “here’s the 101 on how to be aware.” No, it’s by being in that community that you then can strengthen that capacity.

Do you have any plans to accept Executive Assessment or other exams? Any thought to consider waiver requests or go test optional? [21:19]

Amy: At this moment in time, we’re not considering going test optional. We do still require a GMAT or a GRE. For applicants out there, please know that while this is an important data point that we consider, it’s just one in that holistic review that Pat mentioned. So we do still require the test. It’s one piece of the bigger puzzle that you present to us with your candidacy.

Now, I know that Tuck takes an applicant’s highest score when evaluating the application. I vaguely recall that there was a time that you actually took the highest verbal and the highest quant. Do you still do that or did I make a mistake? [21:58]

Amy: We love to see all of the test scores, but we’re not creating a new kind of super score for the individual applicant. We definitely consider the progress people have made on the tests and the highest scores in the overall evaluation.

Tuck has three required 300-word essays and one optional, and then an additional required essay for re-applicants. What do you hope to learn from the essays, especially this year’s new essay, that you don’t get from the transcript resume and application boxes? [22:30]

Pat: Each part of the application maps to a different criteria. We’re getting Smart from your test scores and your transcripts. We’re getting Accomplished from your resume and your answers to the work history and extracurriculars. The Aware and Encouraging criteria are harder to quantify from those kinds of documents. So the essays specifically track to aware and encouraging.

Essay one, where we’re asking, “Why an MBA and why Tuck?” gets to that forward-thinking part of awareness that I talked about before. Essay two of, “Tell us who you are,” that’s getting to the reflective part of awareness that I was discussing. And then essay three is getting at that encouraging part. We changed that slightly this year and made it broader because we wanted to give people more opportunity to share how they might satisfy the encouraging criteria.

This opens up the opportunities applicants may choose to provide a similar example, how they help someone achieve success, like last year’s question was, but this also gives them the option instead to talk about a time where maybe they had to push back or a time that they dealt empathetically with people who were different than they were. So we wanted to broaden the opportunities to share encouraging with us. That’s what we’re hoping to get out of those essays.

And I’ll put in a pitch for our blog – the Tuck 360 Blog on our website goes into detail about what we are looking for in each of our essay questions – What do we mean by Smart, Accomplished, Aware, and Encouraging? What can you expect through the interview? What are we looking for in the letters of reference? So I encourage applicants to Tuck to take a look at that because it is a good one.

What is the most common mistake or mistakes that you see applicants make in the application process? [24:56]

Amy: I guess I’ll start and say, as we are reading applications, we’re really reading with an eye on the positive and not looking for mistakes. We’re looking for reasons to admit candidates. We’re looking for strengths. I come into reading an application believing and ready to be enthusiastic about someone’s candidacy. And so I’m not looking for those mistakes. I’m just really enthusiastic and reading in a positive manner. And our committee moves forward in that way.

Sometimes we see candidates who maybe miss an opportunity, right? So missing an opportunity to share with us, less so, what they’ve done, but the reasons behind why they have taken a certain course of action. Why was there this particular transition in their background? When people are answering the essay questions, the detail of what you have done, I often will see in your resume, but sometimes they miss the opportunity to connect with the excitement of the committee, by sharing a little bit about their motivation behind the things that they’be done and the impact that they’ve had.

Pat: I will add, making sure that you never leave us guessing about anything. This goes a little bit with Amy’s point of, if you have a job gap, be sure to explain it. Or if you have an unusual choice of recommender or your grades took a dip, don’t ignore it. We see it. So ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. Be straightforward, tell us what happened, but don’t make us guess, because we get too creative in what we guess. And we often get it wrong. So fill in those blanks for us. Help us understand how you’ve gotten from point A to point B.

What will interviews be like this year at Tuck for the upcoming cycle? [27:19]

Pat: This past year all of our interviews were virtual. We will continue to have virtual interviews going forward. We will also continue to offer interviews by invitation. So after you’ve applied, we’ll review your application and invite you to an interview.

In the past, one of the things that we loved about Tuck was the opportunity to have an open interview policy for candidates who came to campus. In light of COVID, that hasn’t been possible. So we’ve had to move to the invitational interview, but to somewhat replicate that open interview policy. What we have is an opportunity for a guaranteed interview. So if applicants for round one submit their application by the early deadline of September 1st, they can guarantee themselves an interview. If they get it in – the complete application with the app fee paid, letters of reference done, GMAT and GRE scores in, then you’re guaranteed an interview. For round two, as long as it’s in by December 1st, same thing, you can guarantee yourself an interview that way. That’s been our compromise since we’re not able to bring people to campus for open interviews.

Would you like to have in-person interviews again? Or do you see yourself kind of doing it both ways in the future? [28:48]

Pat: I’d love to be able to have them in person again but kind of back to Amy’s silver lining, it has opened up lots of opportunities. In the past, if we had candidates who couldn’t come to campus, we interviewed them virtually. So it’s not totally new for us. What was totally new for us this year was that 100% of our students coming in in two weeks, were interviewed virtually.

What candidates do you not see enough of in the applicant pool or would you like to see more of in the applicant pool? [29:26]

Pat: That’s a hard one. As soon as you say I want to see more of this candidate, everybody else who doesn’t fit that profile says, “Well, you don’t want me!”

So what do I want more of? I want more candidates who are excited about the MBA, who know where they’re going in life, are excited about Tuck and recognize the opportunities that our unique program has to offer and are ready to jump in with both feet and contribute to the program and make Tuck an even better place.

Amy: I agree. I think applicants can come from so many different types of backgrounds and be a great fit for the program. I support that path for sure.

Some applicants have specific elements of their background that they’re really worried give them grave concern. How do you view applicants who had a dip in grades or perhaps a period of unemployment due to a mental health issue, depression, anxiety, etc? [30:47]

Amy: On that, we encourage you in the application process to give us a chance to get to know you and understand the full picture of your candidacy. If there was a major life event like that, it’s certainly going to impact other things and if it’s not explained, then we see that there’s a disconnect somewhere and something feels like it’s missing when we read the application. So the best is that the candidate can kind of bring their confidence and know that we are reading openly and with positivity. As a candidate, tell us what happened, tell us what you learned from that. And nothing is going to disqualify you from being fully considered for the program. We have heard a lot of stories over the years and much more serious than, “Oh, I failed Chemistry freshman year.” We understand this is a whole life you have lived in some capacity prior to applying for the MBA. You’ve had a lot of experiences. So please be open and know that we are receiving it, and we just respect your candidacy and your ability to share something difficult with us. So tell us what’s happening and share it in whatever way you’re most comfortable with. We accept in advance.

So in other words, that would not automatically disqualify them? [32:27]

Pat: Not at all. I think people are much more open about sharing mental health issues. I feel like in the 17-some years that I’ve been doing this, I hear about it much more in applications. I think applicants are more comfortable sharing it and that’s a great way to help us understand the full picture.

What about somebody who wants to apply and maybe they have an academic infraction or a misdemeanor or some actually criminal blot on their record? How is that viewed? [32:54]

Amy: We have seen some of that before. It probably won’t be the first time that there is a blemish there. We’ve been able to put it into context in the past and admit a candidate with something like that in their past. If there is a clear demonstration with behavior after that point in your personal history, where we see that you have rebuilt, that you have taken the steps to just be open and move forward from that particular time with more maturity and awareness – talking about that journey can be incredibly compelling in an application.

What advice do you have for applicants wanting to join the class of 2024? [34:20]

Pat: Get to know us. Explore Tuck. Talk to Tuckies. Tuckies love to talk about Tuck. So reach out to our students. We’ve got on our website a student ambassador page, where you can find somebody with a similar background to you, or similar career goals to you, or involvement in clubs. Reach out to them and talk to them and find out about Tuck.

We’re not traveling this fall, but we have all kinds of online events, small coffee chats with admissions officers and students to larger Tuck presentations with alumni panels. Lots of opportunities to learn about the program. Do take advantage of that and really learn about Tuck. Make sure Tuck is the right place for you and really help yourself and help us see how Tuck matches with the goals that you’ve set for yourself.

Amy: And I will add to that – take a look at the different backgrounds of students that have come through the program. We have something called Tuck Pathways and you can see the student journey of where they started, what their key learnings were at Tuck, and then where they went when they graduated.

Sometimes for an applicant to see that someone made this transition or that someone did this, it can help that applicant get to know the opportunities at Tuck, alongside understanding the criteria and the application process. But as Pat said, exploring those different opportunities for engagement to help you understand your connection to the program.

Because, thinking about a question that you asked earlier, Linda, when people are talking about their candidacy and their connection with Tuck, it’s not about how much you love Tuck as a candidate, right? It’s also about how much you know about Tuck and the connection that you have to then be able to grow in the environment, that it’s a place where you can thrive.

All of the top MBA programs are going to offer you the absolute best of every opportunity, but how is Tuck special in that way of all of these choices that you might have? It’s great that you love the outdoors or you love a certain aspect of the program, but knowing it and demonstrating how you know the program and your connection with it is important.

Also talking to people in the program, talking to the alumni and the things that Pat highlighted is a critical piece. Just don’t miss that opportunity to do that. Even if you’re just opening the application now and the deadline is eight weeks away, or you’re just opening it in September or October and you’re thinking about round two, you have time to talk to somebody about Tuck. As you can tell from me, it’s easier to get somebody to start talking about Tuck than it is to have them stop talking. So be prepared for that. You can reach out to alumni on LinkedIn or ambassadors on our website, and you will receive a positive response. And that conversation will help you get to start to know Tuck and get a feel for it, even if you have yet to visit.

What advice would you give to someone thinking ahead for, let’s say a fall 2022 or later application? [38:22]

Amy: I occasionally will receive inquiries from folks who have just graduated from college. You pick up the phone and it’s someone who is getting ready to graduate and then they’re thinking about applying in the fall. I say, “Okay. Well, have you thought about this? Wait a minute.”

I will often recommend, for people who are thinking ahead, to take a look at the first essay, right? You can see the essay questions for this year. And take a look at that first essay and try to answer, “Why an MBA?” Just take a minute with the essays and start thinking about that. And you can start that answer and it will evolve as you get closer to your application process in a year.

Also during that first job out of college or those very early positions, keep a record of your accomplishment. Keep a record of the times when you made a mistake or somebody really gave you a pat on the back. You’ll forget all those great things that happened, and you’ll forget some of the mistakes, too, but try to keep track of it. Even if you just jot it in your phone like your notes for your future application, keep track of the things that you’re doing in that year or two before you apply, because those will be great experiences to draw from in an essay or in an interview conversation, potentially.

Pat: Develop relationships with supervisors and mentors. These are going to be your future recommenders. Working with them so they know you well, not in an opportunistic way, will help you learn from them and you’re going to grow because you’re working closely with them. But then those are going to be the people that can write thoughtfully about you going forward. And you want people who know you really well.

Take stretch assignments. Really push yourself in those couple years to have an impact. Try something where you’re going to have an impact with your employer, stay involved in the community, and be thoughtful. Really take the time… This is whether you’re applying now or whether you’re applying in a couple of years. Take the time to reflect. Figure out what it is that you want to do.

Do informational interviews with people from the kinds of careers that you’re thinking about and see how they got there. Maybe they didn’t get there with an MBA. Maybe they did. But try and explore the various pathways for yourself. So when it is time to apply, you think through all of this, and you’ve got a good understanding of what you want to do, what you want out of an MBA and where you want to go.

Where can listeners and potential applicants learn more about Dartmouth Tuck’s MBA program? [42:40]

Amy: For people wanting to explore more about the MBA program, you can go to Tuck.dartmouth.edu. You can also visit https://tuck.dartmouth.edu/admissions for admissions and online events. And please join us. Whether you’re applying this year or in a future year, you’re welcome to join the robust opportunities that we have for virtual events, whether it’s conversations with admissions or with some of our current students. We also mentioned the Tuck 360 Blog – that’s a great space to hear directly from the admissions committee, as well as students who will be talking about their summer internship experiences and from incoming students as they start orientation in just two weeks at Tuck.

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